Another MRAP in the hands of Police

Amanda Frye December 22, 2013 at 06:36 PM
Militarization of the the police in the United States of America is frightening and reeks of fascism! Towns don't need tanks. These are asymmetric warfare vehicles. These vehicles have machine gun turrets on top. No citizen , liberal or conservative, that I've talked to think police have any business with these MRAPs. The MRAPs get about 3 miles per gallon, weigh about 18 tons, with tires that cost over $900 a piece. MRAPs on city streets ruin the roadways underlying sewer and water lines. Redlands MRAP was a covert acquisition which was discovered when the Patch ran an article that mentioned the the acquisition. In Redlands, the ordinances allow for all acquisitions under $50,000 never to go before the public or council. In theory the entire Redlands PD could be militarized without council or public knowledge. This really reeks of fascism and is very third world.
beaumontdave December 23, 2013 at 12:11 AM
The MRAP weighs around 18 tons, same as an empty cement truck. The turret's often removed, and no police dept. is going to mount a machine gun, so this is a defensive weapon, allowing cops to enter a free fire zone without risking getting shot or bombed as well as evacuating any innocents or wounded. It's heavy enough to block access or protect from ramming. On the whole, it's a relatively benign, defensive tool that's going to be very rarely needed or used. I don't think it serves as an example of police militarism, growing fascism, or the loss of American freedom.
Amanda Frye December 23, 2013 at 04:13 AM
Beaumontdave your views are very naive. Ever been to a Communist country? I have. It is inappropriate to militarize the police in the United States. Perhaps this recent opinion column from the Denver Post will help shed some light on the gravity of the situation. http://www.denverpost.com/carroll/ci_24696707/just-what-your-local-police-dont-need-mdash
Amanda Frye December 23, 2013 at 04:26 AM
Beaumontdave who do the police plan on using these militarized mine resistant ambush protectant (MRAP) vehicles against? Of course the answer is civilians. Who authorizes the use of these MRAPs? What are the guidelines for use in Banning and Redlands? These MRAPs are designed for asymmetric warfare and have no business in a local police force especially suburban towns. Towns don't need tanks nor militarized police force; it's wrong and a third world mindset. Change starts slow.
rubberband December 23, 2013 at 11:54 AM
also, didn't you all have a situation where some guy had like a whole basement filled with explosive stuff? Am I remembering this weird? Did you guys have someone who had stockpiled a bunch of explosive shit? I'd agree with Amanda on her statement: "Towns don't need tanks nor militarized police force; it's wrong and a third world mindset." mostly due to the common complaint that you seem to have there that your police force is a bit twitchy to begin with....you all are close enough to call in a mine resistant tank should you need one from the military base, right? Someone educate me on your area....It seems to me having a big ass tank thing might be kinda scary in the wrong hands? (interesting article, Amanda. Thanks.)
pamela December 23, 2013 at 09:39 PM
you can learn alot of information if you will watch alex jones on youtube or the internet under infowars.com we are headed for a new world order and it has been happening under our eyes, but with the 2nd amendment being threatened , their stating that us civilians are the terriost against them and the military vehicles that they are purchasing is for their ''protection'' wth that means!!!!
Amanda Frye December 23, 2013 at 10:12 PM
Interesting article in the Business Insider about the Pentagon 1033 program that is militarizing police. http://www.businessinsider.com/program-1033-military-equipment-police-2011-12 Has anyone tried to follow the "audit trail" for the MRAPs and any other military equipment that local governments have received? Wonder if Banning and Redlands have received other military equipment. Spotty oversight of the 1033 Program that is militarizing police is alarming. So who is watching the local police and who is monitoring the use and misuse of the "free MRAPs and other military equipment that is being put in the hands of local police? http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=207340981
Jeremiah December 23, 2013 at 11:01 PM
Amanda - thanks for the links! I am tracking down the link to the California 1033 program to post here for you. You are right - any city on this 1033 program has their LEA agent notified of weapons and supplies as they become available from the DOD. It is an ongoing program as long as the city stays certified and everything from raincoats to surplus weapons are offered. Once they don't recertify or lose the certification the surplus equipment has to be returned upon request. Ahh, here it is: **** http://www.calema.ca.gov/publicsafetyandvictimservices/pages/about-the-1033-program.aspx **** When you open it up there will be a link on the right side to Certification Requirements which will download a .pdf which outlines the certification process and the screening process. **** Hopefully this will be of some help to you in trying to educate people to wake up! **** Jeremiah
Guy McCarthy (Editor) December 24, 2013 at 04:09 AM
Links to Patch reports: http://bit.ly/1b3zGqP and http://bit.ly/18xIbQl
Diego Rose December 24, 2013 at 02:43 PM
Atta Girl Amanda!. . . . WAKE UP AMERICA?Banning/Beaumont!! Stop being afraid of the boogie men. Start learning some real facts about crime in America and who/why arrest are being made. You may be surprised or you might just continue to be sheepole and buy what your sold. Question everything because it is your patriotic duty. You'll be glad you did.
Sheri Davis January 06, 2014 at 10:22 AM
The guy with all the stuff in his basement whatnot might be that Bruce Bornyack guy and his sons from Cherry Valley you're thinking of??? I went to school with Bruce and he was a nice guy then. Don't know what happened to him in the years since. Poor guy. Whatever his issues have been, he needs some serious help with them.
beaumontdave January 06, 2014 at 02:43 PM
Got busy with holidays and never came back to the debate. Interesting that anyone who doesn't embrace whatever conspiracy or paranoid line of thinking is naïve or sheeple. I look at the MRAP and see an expensive long term upkeep with a rare moment of usability for LE, therefore I figure one such vehicle in a hundred mile radius is practical, any more is police dept. vanity and taxpayer burden. I don't see police turning into military, a fascist state forming, or TEOTWAWKI. This doesn't make me stupid or foolish any more that fearing these things makes you howling neurotics. The level and tone of the debate tells that story, so consider how much you're insulting those you're trying to sell your theory to. WAKE UP AMERICA was the byline of Johnny Carson's funniest character, not a way to talk to adults.
rubberband January 06, 2014 at 02:52 PM
Sheri- I don't remember who the person was with the stock pile of weapons and explosives was...I have met people who started off doing O.K. and then became truly frightened and began doing similar things. I noticed this appeared to happen after a very large loss. Death of a spouse, parent, child....a BIG loss would trigger hoarding behavior and a type of unease or even paranoia...I cannot imagine why you'd all need to have a MRAP, the cost of keeping one up and running well seems considerable and also appears to be handled by people who know what they are doing. All serious points aside, there was this complete d-bag on the freeway the other day...I wish I wudda been able to borrow your MRAP for just a couple of minutes...heh heh hee.....
Amanda Frye January 06, 2014 at 08:11 PM
The MRAP trickle down from the US Department of Defense comes from Program 1033 that was enacted into law in 1997 which was originally designed to allow local police to get bullet proof vests. However, this program has been exploited and the DoD is militarizing local police with MRAPs which needs to stop. Our Congress needs to put an end to the program which allows for militarization of our police departments with MRAPs and other DoD cast offs. The National Guard would be the appropriate recipients of MRAPs not local police. Please write your Senators and Representatives to ask that Program 1033 to be discontinued and the MRAPs to be recalled from local police forces. Militarization of local police reeks of fascism. There is little over site of the program. No town needs a tank.
rubberband January 06, 2014 at 08:48 PM
"No town needs a tank...." I guess that means no one citizen can borrow it either......Damn.
Sheri Davis January 06, 2014 at 09:03 PM
Rubberband...I don't live in Banning...so therefore the MRAP vehicle is not 'mine'...and why any city feels it necessary to have one is beyond me. I can understand a police department having certain vehicles designed for the bomb squads...I don't think an MRAP qualifies as such. As for people behaving certain ways...you don't know the backstory as to why...who are we to judge the why...there is so much mental illness going on anymore...I feel bad for people who truly suffer from it as many in my own family truly do suffer from various forms...I hope that 2014 is a wonderful year for you, seriously. Life is hard enough without all the negativity. I think all of the Libi/Judy bashing really needs to go elsewhere...I'm tired of reading it here, especially when they tend to keep it going by stirring the pot. Have a wonderful evening everyone.
rubberband January 06, 2014 at 10:47 PM
Yep...what ^ said....mentally ill is really hard thing to cope with. If I notice behavior that seems like mental illness might be the case, the gloves go back on and I back away super quick....I notice if people don't respond to trolls or people in need of some help in online/web forums, it just gets sorta quiet and the problem just goes away. People CAN disagree or have different viewpoints and still be respectful. On a lighter note, I am not the sorta person that should ever ever have access to a tank. It's just a bad idea all around...the temptation to roll over cars that park illegally in the handicapped spaces or park their BMW's in red zones because they are "super important busy and better than the rest of us"....well, let's just say I'd flatten a few vehicles laughing like a mad man.
Diego Rose January 06, 2014 at 11:01 PM
Point taken Beaumont Dave. My intent was never to imply stupidity but definitely APATHY. You see, you stated, "I don't see police turning into military, a fascist state forming, or TEOTWAWKI." So, I can't help but wonder, why not? How aware are you with the happenings around the country and world since 911? NDAA, HR 347, The Patriot Act, The G20 in Canada, The .... I mean I can go through an exorbitant list of events and legislation that is all but indisputable. Now if you don't know of the events or you simply ignore the significance of the events, seems to matter not! I still can't help but truly wonder why not? As you seem to see it, the events/information that I am aware of is, "a paranoid line of thinking" yet I see the over legislation and over protection of me against "terrorist" and "bad things/people" as being, "a paranoid line of thinking" or apathetic toward facts and history. Which, if either, is it?
beaumontdave January 07, 2014 at 11:07 PM
It becomes a question of degree. I like that folks want to alert us to intrusions on personal liberty, to warn us of possible corruption in the levels of government. Your concerns with Pass Hospital, even Libi's search for graft in Beaumont are interesting reads and I follow all of it along with any other points of view here, in the local papers and blogs, the LA/OC papers and blogs, and stuff from Vegas and Milwaukee that I follow. In short, I read a lot, so it's not ignorance, nor is it apathy as I do have concerns about privacy in this digital age, and how our government functions from the IRS to the NSA, in fact I'm something of a prepper, but not because I see the-end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it coming, I simply believe in preparing for possible interuptions in the supply of goods and services. On the contrary, I think the outlook for the economy and the country are as good as can be, and I don't understand the point of view that sees us sliding towards a military state run by fascists, communists, the Tri-lateral Commission, the Freemasons, or any other boogiemen........ I think it's great that people are concerned and involved the way they are, but I believe fear and fearmongering runs rampant around these blogs, so much so that when I state I don't see police being militarized, our country sliding into fascism, or TheEndoftheWorldasWeKnowIt happening, your response is "Why not?" The MRAP started this thread, I stated I thought it had minimal usefulness for the expense, but was otherwise a benign tool, it doesn't launch anything it simply protects whoever's inside from weapons fire and explosions. Because I don't fear the use of this thing I'm apathetic and naïve. So I'll tell you what I do fear, the mindset that wants to separate everyone into us or them, are you with US or are you one of THEM? That type of thinking has brought our government to a standstill and has Americans threatening other Americans over what they choose to believe. The unbending dogmatic view that doesn't allow for other ways of thinking, the crusade , that's what makes me nervous.
Diego Rose January 08, 2014 at 12:31 AM
Agreed Dave, and the degree to which the "benign" tool of a police department already understaffed due to budget shortfalls is truly needed, remains my concern with its acquisition. It has apparently been justified "some how" while appropriate staffing levels have not even been achieved. It has been justified while the city already has an armored vehicle. It has been justified while the police officers union seeks to achieve comparable pay within the county. Wrong priorities now will all but certainly lead to wrong priorities later. Not us vs. them rather, why do WE need it? I am responsible to a degree for allowing the happenings around me to persist if in fact I really don't, A- understand them and B- agree with them. We still have some rights that have not been intentionally stripped from us yet. There is a us vs. them but it doesn't exist here in Banning, yet. I am not worried in the slightest about the end of the world. I am however worried about the type of world I will have to live in when goods and services are interrupted as I agree they will. There is an overwhelming similarity in today's America and the Germany that we fought against just seventy years ago. That type of society is becoming more evident by the division of thought on topics such as the need for "more safety just in case." The justification of the state to have and acquire at will, with little to no public scrutiny other than an apathetic relaxed "oh, its benign" is like the frogs in the boiling pot. I am not feeling like I wanna be a frog. Everything is benign until it isn't. It seems to me your train of thought is no different in that, while you think there is nothing afoul with the unnecessary acquisition of the MRAP, my thinking is somehow the, "unbending dogmatic view that doesn't allow for other ways of thinking"? Fear mongering and conspiracy theories are only that if, they are not actually happening. If they are in fact occurring then those ideologies are simply scary facts. Intents and agendas are what are truly benign and the degree to which we choice to allow/except all that transpires around us without protest is very telling of many facets of our culture. I really enjoyed what you have written and I agree with 90% of it without reservation. I hope in many aspects that both you and I are wrong.
Jeremiah January 08, 2014 at 09:12 AM
Diego Rose and BeaumontDave - did either if you attend the meeting with the Banning Police Officer's Association at Johnny Russo's last night? I'd be really interested in your take as two of the serious commentators here. **** Jeremiah
Diego Rose January 08, 2014 at 09:21 AM
I did.
Jeremiah January 08, 2014 at 09:57 AM
What did you think? I thought it pretty much rehashed the issues already discussed on the Patch without anything new or any actual solutions to the issues suggested by either side (if there are "sides"). Interesting to note that the process of acquisition of the MRAP was stated as questionable and under investigation. Leaving the citizen reaction to it out, I am wondering why this is such a hotbed issue between the police department and the council when at least on the surface all of the requirements of the 1033 program were adhered to correctly and nothing illegal was done on either side. Why then such an effort to disconnect from it on both sides? It almost seems there is something missing from the body of public knowledge. **** Jeremiah
rubberband January 08, 2014 at 11:24 AM
" The unbending dogmatic view that doesn't allow for other ways of thinking, the crusade , that's what makes me nervous...." I am going to borrow this if you don't mind, and I'll give you full credit, but that pretty much sums it up for me, and yea, I been reading you guys all along....having been accused and not wrongly so, of trying to pull off a "old guy folksy aw shucks" thing here, I will say this with NO hint of irony or joke-making, normal smart assery from me: What can appear to be apathy sometimes is calmness and mindful contemplation, and perhaps a different mind set that has seen many wars and arguments and losses....and sees the end game...it might be the opposite of apathy and disconnecting.....It might be quiet movement seeing to the suffering and when nothing can be done, staying put and offering a hot soup or a cool drink and nodding, hand offered in peace, saying, "I get you, brother (or sister)...me too...." not always AFTER the loudness and sometimes bloodshed, but DURING IT.
Amanda Frye January 08, 2014 at 12:51 PM
Jeremiah you are definitely on the right track with "It almost seems there is something missing from the body of public knowledge." The militarization of local police without public knowledge is an extremely alarming trend in Banning, Redlands as well as other places through out the United States. This really is fascism creeping into our country and citizens need to demand that it stop and stop now. It is time to hold elected officials at all levels of government accountable for what is occurring. Perhaps the US Congress and White House contacts can be printed on the Patch to make it easy for citizens to voice their concerns about the MRAP and militarization of local police through Program 1033 and 1028.
beaumontdave January 10, 2014 at 02:03 AM
RB you're the most entertaining read on these blogs, I hope you're around for a while.
rubberband January 10, 2014 at 01:56 PM
beaumontdave....do you ever wonder what is gonna finally take you? I do. Not a lot...but I do wonder: What is finally gonna kill me? Hope I can look it right in it's face.....Not going anywhere, it appears, for awhile. I post here because I am in recovery, laid up and originally, not very happy about it...instead of becoming a bitter old angry a-hole, I found this was a better alternative to feeling sorry for myself......and find the Patch (nationwide!) a mix of WTH, amusement, a great way to study humanity (mostly American) in one of it's current forms, and mostly because I laugh, heartily, on a regular. With great certainty- and I am certain about very little- I believe I'd be dead a long time now, if not for laughing...
beaumontdave January 11, 2014 at 03:59 AM
RB for awhile I thought I knew exactly what was going to take me down, but now it looks like I may be back on a normal track. Finding humor is a great gift to have, considering how life tries so hard to squeeze it out of you. Being at peace with the nature of life and death is tricky stuff for me and still a work in progress.
rubberband January 11, 2014 at 11:35 AM
O Yea...Hear that. Being at peace? With ANYTHING or anyone? It's part of my daily, even hourly process...if I didn't learn how to roll with the events of a day, stand up calmly for what I believe, and apologize for being an a-hole, and laugh at stuff and myself-often....well, I'd have no one in my life.... as I can be a colossal ass...we are all works in progress...some people work harder than others, I gotta work extra hard...with weird tools...LOL.


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